how was i ever taken in by this complete bollocks,and for 18 years as well.
never been happier
JoinedPosts by never been happier
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49
The List, by "Prominent Bethelite"
by morloc ini occasionally pop through here to catch up on the latest, but this time i'm going to pop my own post on here.. some of you internet oldsters may even remember this.
my first experience on the internet regarding discussions about jehovah's witnesses and the watchtower took place on a now-obscure usenet group, before i eventually stumbled across hourglass2.. during those days, there was a poster who went by the name "prominent bethelite," an otherwise anonymous individual whom i remember most for an extensive, exhaustive compilation of date-oriented remarks, predictions, and expectations by the watchtower organization down through the decades of its history.. it became known as "the list" and it's definitely lengthy... but a fascination look at the abundance of errant statements made through the watchtower's history.. if you're curious, it's been available for a long time on hourglass2's site, and can be seen using the link provided below.. the list, compiled by prominent bethelite (1999).
that's about it for this stop through here.
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What Is The World View Of America?
by minimus ina lot of people felt that the usa's reputation was terrible, especially under president bush.
then obama became president and we heard how the rest of the world felt that finally they had a person that would respect them and their views and work with them!
the new president even ot a nobel peace prize because of the world's perception.. what's your view of america?
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never been happier
Thank you,justhuman14. I got so carried away with my rant that i actually forgot the 9/11 fiasco.
I cannot for the life of me see how tower 7,yes building 7 all 500+ feet of it fell into its own footprint at freefall speed even though no planes hit it. It was reported by the bbc as having collapsed a full 30 minutes before it actually did,and could be seen standing in the background while Jane Standley reported. The 9/11 commission refused to investigate building 7 as it was not in their remit to do so. So for the 1st time in history a steel framed building( which was on fire) fell down completely into its own footprint even though no other steel framed building anywhere,ever has done that without demolition charges.For anyone to believe that some office fires that were being successfully fought by the fire brigade could melt huge steel beams simultaniously all over this giant building and cause a symmetrical collapse is to return to the realms of fantasy,which is what most of us on this forum have just escaped from. look at the physics, it couldn't have happened the way they said.
For a govt to do that to itself,to its own people,for the reasons it did, has to be one of the most wicked things that any government has done.There are plenty of other contenders,the nazi's what mao did,what stalin did,what pol pot did. Look at who was in charge of the neocon administration, Chaney,Rumsfeld,wolfowiz and bush. Look at the london underground bombings, what a total farce, without a doubt an inside job. Once people get past the mental barrier that their government is actualy their most serious enemy,then a whole new reality emerges.
Remember how you felt when you found out that the watchtower was in bed with the UN. I foolishly told a sister i met in a shop,she actually put her hands over her ears and started shaking her head saying "its not true,they wouldn't do that" her reaction had no bearing on whether the infomation was true or not. She just decided to not believe it. Same with people who believe the govt line on things like 9/11. their belief has no bearing on whether its true or not,its just their belief. Psalm 146 v3 do not put your trust in nobles ( leaders)and mortals. and i never will again.
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What Is The World View Of America?
by minimus ina lot of people felt that the usa's reputation was terrible, especially under president bush.
then obama became president and we heard how the rest of the world felt that finally they had a person that would respect them and their views and work with them!
the new president even ot a nobel peace prize because of the world's perception.. what's your view of america?
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never been happier
bringers of death. 4000000 vietnamese,agent orange dioxin poisoing all over southeast asia, depleted uranium contamination of the middle east 1000000 dead iraqis and 5000000 made refugees, forced cuba into perpetual poverty by the blockade,their misunderstanding of scripture has lead to their awful alliance with israel which has become a full aparthied government evicting blacks from israel as well as their trully appalling treatment of the palestinian arabs is all supported by the USA. their support of the horrendous government in saudi arabia and their support for the terrorists in syria which has been done to overthrow asad,the legitimate ruler of a sovereign state.their recent fomenting of the trouble in ukraine where ambassador Nuland said they were going to put their man in in kiev and "fuck the eu". their attack on afghanistan,serbia, and 49 other countries since the end of the war. viscious brutal penal system using prisoner slaves as cheap labour, viscious brutal police rapidly becoming militarised.economy based on the creation of fiat paper money from thin air with nothing to back it except a vast military machine, if anyone dares to trade oil without using dollars(think saddam and gadaffi) then its curtains for them.Although Vlad has done an enormous deal with China to sell oil in local currency and that has struck the dollar a death blow because other countries can see the writing on the wall for the USA and are now siding up to the russians and the chinks.USA chucked out of ASIAN conference after 2 days cos china told them their economy is based on nothing and they have nothing to offer the rest of the world. Obama gave a speech at the Hague this week,no one clapped and he had to walk off looking like a has been. We are sick of hearing about how america is the leader of the free world,defender of peoples right to self determination,upholder of justice. did that not include the blacks who couldnt even ride a bus with a white person as recently as the 1960's,what about the indians whose country was stolen,now concentrated into reserves and seeing every agreement with the pale-face being broken by the pale-face. I went to my-lai in vietnam and saw what the brave soldiers did to 504 men women and especially children. This post is about the americans, if it were about the british,french,germans,chinese then i could make a list equally as long about their wickedness, we humans are an affront to the living god,no one is without blame,if you voted for the govt who did these things then you supported them so you are complicit, americans are as wicked as any other people, george carlin summed it up brilliantly in his video on the american dream, its all bullshit and you gotta be in a dream to believe it.
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new thinking after reading Collosians
by Honeybucket ini read the book of collosians and now im really not sure whether the trinity concept is completely false.
maybe i need to read non-jw bible to make my decision.
even the nwt seemed to support the jesus was a manifestation of god to help mankind.
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never been happier
Yes,i too have come to think the trinity is a definite possibility.To call jesus an angel is clearly disproved by hebrews so the wts is blaspheming in calling jesus an angel.Heb 1;6 "let all gods angels worship him",ask a witness who the angels worship and watch the cogs start to jam up when you point out heb1;6... jesus is begotten ie comes out of god like our own children come out of us ,they are part of us as jesus is part of god.We can create a table or a chair but we beget our children and god begat jesus but they created all other things."let US make man in OUR image" "here the man has become like one of US". Could god really trust an angel to become flesh and be sacrificed for all,given that we are in this mess because of the ambitions of angels, how many are reckoned to have rebelled? a third.How does sending an angel to be the sacrifice prove gods love." i'll show them how much i love them,michael go down there and be tortured and brutalised and murdered" no no no. Jesus is the way the truth and the life,the only means of salvation and therefore he cannot be an angel. John 1.... "the word was with god and the word was god" or the wts version "the word was with god and the word was a god" either way 2 gods are mentioned and if there is only 1 true god and jesus is also a god then he must be a false god but a witness will never say that,to him jesus is an angel so he cannot reconcile that jesus is god, which he has to be,otherwise the angels are worshipping a false god at heb 1. How did the witnesses ever come to believe the nonsense that they preach.I believed it for 16 of the 18 yrs i was one of them but i just can't see how i was duped so completely when nearly all their doctrines are false and easily exposed by praying for the spirit and reading just the bible. All christians must take the bread and wine,no matter where you think your destiny is, the memorial is simply a ceremony to reject the body and blood and is therefore a satanic event.You have the bread in your hands and pass it away, symbolically and physically a rejection of the christ- "this people honour me with their lips but their hearts are far removed"
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i was happy in and i'm happy out
by never been happier incan i tell my story,briefly.
i spent 18 yrs on the ministry,11 of them as an unbaptised publisher,i refused to get baptised because the dedication was a vow to the society,not a vow to god as defined in scripture,this led to many many debates with the elders and i often raised the "millions now living will never die" issue and several other points but was always told about the "light getting brighter" and "imperfect men" but eventually i relented and jumped in the water.i wish now that i'd read bro franz's books,particularly crisis of conscience before doing that,would have saved many hours preaching false doctrines of men, as doctrines of god.but once i got on the internet and started researching....what,bro russell is buried with a huge pyramid,was into numerology,loved freemasons,had ancient egyptian symbols on his books,couldn't prophesy what the name of tomorrow would be,said jesus was already present since 1799,1874,1878,1914,1918,.. and the judge was even worse"1925 is even more clearly prophesied in scripture than 1914" "millions now living will never die"(recently re-written as millions now living may never die),built a lovely house beth sarim for the returning brothers to live in,but lived in it him self,and drove around in their car.then came the new name jehovahs witnesses,but jc said we would be witnesses of him ,and suffer because of his name,thats what christianity is.then 1935 and heaven was closed to new entrants until 2005 when 2 new bros were put on the gb who weren't even born in 1935.no one in my congregation batted an eye to it...but the doctrines were still true...weren't they????????
sorry but they have more holes than my watering can.. they resorted to quoting the johanas greber bible,written under trance by grebo and his spirit medium wife and used to back up the wts version of john 1:1.so jumping ahead,when i was pointed to the un deception(an organisation which hosts the temple of set in th un tower) it was time to bale out,simple as that.they won't hear anything i have to say but oddly they haven't called a judicial for me either.i was in my late 20's when i joined and i got my child-hood buddy into it about 10 yrs ago,but he now refuses to acknowledge me and he only lives 100yds away,and apart from 2 or 3 others thats it as far as contact goes.but the crucial saving for me was the fact that i always kept association with outside friends and my wife never joined so the change was much easier than some of you have had.ihaven't found a new church,yet,i loved god before the wts stuck their ore in and i still love god since i got out.
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never been happier
Can i tell my story,briefly. I spent 18 yrs on the ministry,11 of them as an unbaptised publisher,i refused to get baptised because the dedication was a vow to the Society,not a vow to God as defined in scripture,this led to many many debates with the elders and i often raised the "millions now living will never die" issue and several other points but was always told about the "light getting brighter" and "imperfect men" but eventually i relented and jumped in the water.I wish now that i'd read Bro Franz's books,particularly crisis of conscience before doing that,would have saved many hours preaching false doctrines of men, as doctrines of God.But once i got on the internet and started researching....what,bro Russell is buried with a huge pyramid,was into numerology,loved Freemasons,had ancient egyptian symbols on his books,couldn't prophesy what the name of tomorrow would be,said Jesus was already present since 1799,1874,1878,1914,1918,.. and the Judge was even worse"1925 is even more clearly prophesied in scripture than 1914" "millions now living will never die"(recently re-written as millions now living MAY never die),built a lovely house Beth Sarim for the returning brothers to live in,but lived in it him self,and drove around in their car.Then came the new name Jehovahs witnesses,but JC said we would be witnesses of HIM ,and suffer because of HIS name,thats what Christianity is.Then 1935 and heaven was closed to new entrants until 2005 when 2 new bros were put on the GB who weren't even born in 1935.No one in my congregation batted an eye to it...but the doctrines were still true...weren't they???????? sorry but they have more holes than my watering can.. they resorted to quoting the Johanas Greber bible,written under trance by Grebo and his spirit medium wife and used to back up the WTS version of John 1:1.So jumping ahead,when i was pointed to the UN deception(an organisation which hosts the temple of set in th UN tower) it was time to bale out,simple as that.They won't hear anything i have to say but oddly they haven't called a judicial for me either.I was in my late 20's when i joined and I got my child-hood buddy into it about 10 yrs ago,but he now refuses to acknowledge me and he only lives 100yds away,and apart from 2 or 3 others thats it as far as contact goes.But the crucial saving for me was the fact that i always kept association with outside friends and my wife never joined so the change was much easier than some of you have had.Ihaven't found a new church,yet,i loved God before the WTS stuck their ore in and i still love God since i got out. I,d love to discuss doctrines with those of you who still have a belief in something.There are no annointed in heaven since 1918,the Trinity(depending on which of the many definitions you hold to)may be true.JC probably was crucified,see what reading the bible alone does to the "truth" ..love to all my brothers and sisters,to those still in,it is NOT the truth,God never gave his favour to them ,but tread very carefully when you come to that conclusion for youselves.. i feel for those who have been brutalised by this wicked organisation,if you decide to leave,go very slowly over a long period of time,cautiously make friends outside,and slowly slip away,its the least traumatic exit,and if your whole family is in then don't start bad-mouthing the org,just gradually drift and the lovely brothers and sisters you have affection for can still speak to you,its much better that way,they can't help the fact theyv'e been severely conditioned by a church that has had 130 yrs experience at it.They are decieved,victims who just don't know it.. but a collision with reality is coming along very soon.love to all.
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Selective Memory
by EmptyInside ini don't know if this is the case with everyone.
but,most jehovah's witnesses i know seem to have selective memory.
they will deny straight to your face that in 1995 ,the generation, was explained to be the wicked contemporaries.
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never been happier
Hi all,
i,m new to the forum,having spent 18 happy yrs as a witness and now in my 3rd happy yr as an ex-witness,thanks to the UN.
Anyway,you are dead right about the selective memory,it turns out to be a common trait of people who have been mentally conditioned for long periods,you could call it brain washing,the effects are just about the same.What they do when confronted with a scenario that threatens their conditioned world view,is bring down whats called a mental "slide".They don't know they are doing it.I was taking a book study group a few yrs ago(the assigned elder was held up so it fell to me to step up) and when i mentioned the society's interpretation of the "dragnet" from a WT 10 yrs before, not one person recalled it.Not even the elder when he turned up and took over.I bumped in to a bro and sis in a shop and got talking, i told them about the UN debacle and the sis started shaking her head and kept saying "never,never,never" and getting close to losing control,i was amazed at her reaction,complete mental short-circuit.